Saturday, February 6, 2010
Genesis 7:13-16 The Real Flood...The Bible Version
In this same day Noah and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, went into the ark; they, and every animal according to its kind, and every beast according to its kind, and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth according to its kind; and every fowl according to its kind, every bird of every wing. And they went in to Noah and to the ark, two and two of all flesh, in which is the breath of life. And those going in went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him. And Jehovah shut him within.
What struck me first in these verses, was the fact that Noah, his family and all the animals went into the ark in one day. Now, that's a logistical nightmare. However, it shows that G-d was involved and all things are possible with G-d.
The other question that arises during a discussion of the Ark and all the animals is, "How in the world did all those animals fit into the ark? I started to begin a long dissertation on the size of the ark and the room that they would have occupied. However, please allow me to point you in the direction of a site that has all the facts.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html
I have read it and it follows exactly what the scriptures say.
And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bore up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth. And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. And the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days.
After reading these verses, does anything strike you as funny. What kind of picture of the flood and how it happened do you have in your mind? We know that G-d caused the water from the underground spew upwards and mix with the water that was in the firmament above the sky and it rained down for 40 days and nights. Do you envision massive storms and hurricanes and tidal waves? I don't. I see it happening exactly the way these verses dictate. Yes. It was a heavy rain but there weren't any massive tidal waves and such. It was a flood that happens the same way that a flood occurs in your local area.
I just got done watching a National Geographic show disputing the Noahs Flood. It was a hoot. It showed hurricane and tsunami conditions. They did everything they could to show that the ark, a "primitive vessel", could not, in anyway, survive such horrific conditions. OK. Let's come back to earth. I not saying it was a walk in the park. However, it wasn't Armageddon either. It was a flood from way too much rain. That's it. Pure and simple.
The rain lasted for 40 days and nights. The water covered the earth to approximately 22.5 feet, 6.858 meters. It lasted for 150 days.
I am curious. How many of us knew what the flood was like and was your thoughts according to the scriptures? Please write me at koder@cinci.rr.com or comment here. Also, as I have said before, please feel free to ask questions or comment anonymously at my email. There are many that do. This blog has always been for studying G-ds word and getting the answers through the scriptures and I want to help in anyway I can.
Yevarechecha HaShem Shabbat Shalom Yeshua Ha Mashiach
May G-d Bless You with Sabbath Peace through Y'shua the Messiah
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No Doubt,
ReplyDeleteHow's it going? Haven't seen you at Da Pilgrim's place for a while - thought I'd check out your blog.....I have some questions, if that's okay?
Right off the bat - can you please tell me what a 'kind' is? I've been trying to find this out from people for a while and I get lots of different responses. Is there a Biblical description at any point or is it just a generic term?
I agree that, if God got involved in the loading of the Ark, it causes no logistical problems because He can do whatever He likes - but it doesn't actually say that He did anything in the text, does it? Noah has been commanded to fulfill a task and he does it. Just a thought.
[the link you posted doesn't work, by the way. At least not for me]
"After reading these verses, does anything strike you as funny."
Does anything strike me as funny about mass xenocide? No, not really. It's kind of disgusting to be honest; I hear that drowning is a really bad way to go.
Anyway, I think the reason the Nat Geo show was looking at the crazy maelstrom version of Noah's Flood is because it is usually touted as the cause of things like the Grand Canyon - which would require a lot of energy, not just water, slowly creeping up to 22.5 feet.
Speaking of which, if the water only reached that level, wouldn't plenty of other people have survived - that's not that high, is it? I would have thought that people living on hill-tops would have been just fine. Or wait, is it 22.5 feet up from the highest point? (Mt. Everest?)
Any clarifications would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Matt
Matt,
ReplyDeleteYou know i have always thought about that too, which i think your right it would have to seem right that it was 22.5 feet above all the land of the earth.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteWhat's going on up north? Freezing snow here!
I think there are some typos (definitely mispellings)in this posting. I also believe he means 22.5 feet above the highest mountain. Which by some standards would not have been Mount Everest at the time since many believe that since the depths opened up from below then tectonic plates moved and things were in motion under the waters during the flood such as ground displacement and mountain makers if you will. Now that is not exactly Biblical as in the Bible does not mention it that way but it is a viable answer. Mount Everest as it was, probably was no where near the size it is today. But that is just one take on it.
As to the xenocide, we can only imagine how bad the earth was. We can only read about it. The earth had been around (man's time) for 1600 years. It may have become so destestable that it was beyond worthy enough to be saved. Only Noah was found to be okay enough to be saved for humanities sake. Our world is horrible right now. Imagine if everyone but one family was corrupted! Hatred beyond comparison. Murder, rape, theft, abuse, neglect at every corner by each and every person. We probably only have a taste of what it was like. If I was God I wouldn't have given any second chance. So in a way this was His mercy for the rest of us, so that we wouldn't have to live in what those before us did.
Two cents...
Gozreht,
ReplyDeleteGood to see you, mate.
So your two answers are both extra-Biblical, have no evidence to back them up and require some rather large leaps of faith to get to.
For the mountain one, No DOubt doesn't appear to subscribe to the crazy-Armageddon theory of the flood and yet you have the Himalayas rising from the deep - do you know the kind of frictional energies that would be generated by such rapid movement? It would boil the seas!
Also, if Everest was raised by tectonic action then how did dead aquatic animals end up in the rock that make up the mountain? They can't have been killed in the flood because the floodwaters hadn't settled yet.
For the second point - no matter how bad the earth had got (and there's no evidence outside of the Bible to indicate that there was anything like the supposed/proposed level of degeneration), there's still no call to drown all the babies, infants, pregnant women, elderly, animals, etc. It's just overkill. It's like God's trying to show off or something (or maybe the story was intended to be metaphorical?)
"So in a way this was His mercy for the rest of us, so that we wouldn't have to live in what those before us did."
We're still under the Genesis curse, aren't we? The flood didn't wash that away. We're still hell-bound sinners in need of a saviour; so what use was the flood really?
Cheers,
Hey Matt,
ReplyDeleteIt's good to hear from you.
Sorry for not responding sooner, but I have been refinishing my music studio and it's been taking up a lot of my time.
Also, thanks for adding to our discussion.
"Right off the bat - can you please tell me what a 'kind' is? "
The Hebrew word is "meen" which simply means, "from a common root". A good example would be that a poodle, a german shepard, etc. all came from a common root or meen. The same can be said with the white man, the black man, the yellow man, etc. You could say that these evolved from their own meen or root. However, the Bible is quite specific as to say that there were multiple meens created at the same time. This is in contrast to the common evolutionist thought of one common root or meen.
" I agree that, if God got involved in the loading of the Ark, it causes no logistical problems because He can do whatever He likes - but it doesn't actually say that He did anything in the text, does it?"
You are correct. The text doesn't say that G-d did anything other than shutting the door of the ark. However, it is interesting to note that in Genesis 7:9, the animals went into the ark just like Noah because G-d commanded it, implying that both Noah and the animals were told to enter the ark and they obeyed.
""After reading these verses, does anything strike you as funny."
Does anything strike me as funny about mass xenocide? No, not really. It's kind of disgusting to be honest; I hear that drowning is a really bad way to go."
I'm sorry for using the word funny. I probably should have used the word odd. I wasn't talking about the people that were killed in the flood, but the story of how it happened. Even though the flood and the resulting deaths were justified in G-ds eyes, it was tragic and a shame. Again, a poor use of words...sorry.
"[the link you posted doesn't work, by the way. At least not for me]"
I provided the link to show that the animals on the ark was not all the different kinds of animals we see today, but their "meen" or common root. I didn't want to make the blog entry very long. I guess I should have went into a little more detail. Call it lazy on my part.
"Anyway, I think the reason the Nat Geo show was looking at the crazy maelstrom version of Noah's Flood is because it is usually touted as the cause of things like the Grand Canyon - which would require a lot of energy, not just water, slowly creeping up to 22.5 feet."
I honestly don't know if it meant 22.5 feet above the highest mountain or the overall average mean of the earth. However, it is interesting to point out that the average mean of the earth surface is approximatley 20 feet below sea level. Did the flood cause the Grand Canyon? or Did the flood and the resulting empty undergroung firmament get the ball rolling for the rise of the mountains and the depths of the valley and seas? Don't know for sure.
Shalom,
Keith
Tim,
ReplyDeleteWhat typos? LOL
Matt,
ReplyDeleteI didn't see your second comment until after I responded to the first.
"For the second point - no matter how bad the earth had got (and there's no evidence outside of the Bible to indicate that there was anything like the supposed/proposed level of degeneration), there's still no call to drown all the babies, infants, pregnant women, elderly, animals, etc. It's just overkill."
and
"We're still under the Genesis curse, aren't we? The flood didn't wash that away. We're still hell-bound sinners in need of a saviour; so what use was the flood really?"
I have to agree with you. If the flood was just to flush out the evil, as descibed by Gozreht in his comments, then it didn't work. It didn't accomplish what G-d intended to do. However, I do believe that the text gives us a clue to the real reason for the flood and the wiping out of mankind.
It does talk about all the evil, wickedness and vilolence on the earth at that time. However, read Genesis 6:1-9. It talks about some really weird stuff that was going on. It ends with a "but" statement. Even though all these things were going on, Noah was found to be perfect in his generations. Generations...plural, not that present generation but all his family line. The word for "perfect" is the Hebrew word Taw-meem which means, "without blemish", "without defect". This doesn't mean he was without sin even though he was just and followed the law.
So....what did G-d mean by saying, "Noah was perfect in his generations"? Quite simply, there was none of the stuff, mentioned in verses 1-5, going on within his family line. If it continued, it wouldn't have been very long before an offspring of Noah would have been corupted by the fallen angels.
If this had happened, there would have not been any pure line of man for the Messiah to be born into. It had to be a man because it was prophesied as such.
I know it doesn't seem right in our eyes, but in G-ds eyes, it was the only option for all of man had been corrupted by the b'nai Elohim.
A lot of people only see the death and destruction of the evil but fail to see the true reason behind the flood.
What are your thoughts?
BC,
ReplyDeleteI'm keeping my eye on you. LOL
I agree. It most likely means that the flood was over the entire surface. It'll be one of those questions we ask when we get there.
Be careful driving that big ol truck in the snow. :-)
Matt,
ReplyDeleteYou pose a good point about how my answers were extra-Biblical. But a common mistake that people make is that not all things are in the Bible. (A little tongue in cheek on that response). My point is the Bible does not give all the answers to every little thing there is. So, of course some things involve faith. But the Bible also gives clues as well. Not as a code but as a starting point for science and research.
And I understand that all that movement of the earth would have been tremendous but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. If the world was under water then heat from the the eruptions would have been cooled. No one would have felt the earthquakes or have been damaged since they were on a boat. But most of all, if God saved them then His hand would have protected them anyway.
There would be no written record besides the Bible of a wicked generation since they would have perished in the flood. And many cultures (although distorted) have stories of a flood like the one the Bible has told.
Animals in the rock of Everest just means that the animals were trapped as the mountain was being formed, like a bug under a large rock someone placed on it.
The flood did not save us from sin. The flesh was not destroyed. Man carried that on for us. So in a way we are still under that "curse". The flood to me was a sign that God will save the righteous. Follow Him and what He has created will yours, especially, eternal life.
Take care.
As i read over the verse luke 17:26 just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. It stuck somewhere in me and got me thinking about where we are in in the blog. I would like to atleast draw your attention to what our lord is saying here and if you have some thought on it post it....
ReplyDeleteIf there was a world-wide flood, why do we find sea fossils on the top of Mt. Everest?
ReplyDeleteHey DM,
ReplyDeleteWe don't know how high Mt. Everest was at the time of the flood or even if it was a mountain at all. Since the flood covered all the earth, I would say that included what is now called Mt. Everest.
Also, before the flood, there was a lot of land under water. Therefore, I would say there was plenty of time for marine life to die and fall into the silt and over time harden to fossils. You should know by now, I'm not sold on a young earth.
In fact, I have taught consistently on an old earth. However, I would not be surprised if it turns out I'm wrong. Unfortunately, neither mainstream Christianity, Judaism or Science could prove their position beyond a shadow of a doubt.
As for now, I'm going with what the bible actually teaches and science can prove.
BTW... Good to hear from you.
Shalom